Rising from the ashes of 900RPM, the German noise extraordinaire David Munster presents a new dark vision with [gelöscht] releasing March 8th via Colorado based label Produkt 42.

Being a fan of the more experimental and avant garde corners of the music scene can be both a joy and a pain, trudging through oceans of what can only be described as distorted microwave drones and noise for the sake of noise with little to no substance. Verführervergelter however does not fall into this category, with [gelöscht] run time of just under 40 minutes across 9 tracks it managed to keep my attention with its grinding mechanical ambiance gently pierced with the sound of air-raid sirens throughout. The release plays like a movie score and while one might be tempted to envision this style of music in the context of horror I think this release could fit well in a broader spectrum than the obvious.

Each track seemingly flows in and out of eachother creating a cohesive listening experience, uninterrupted by one track ending and another beginning which I feel really adds some depth and dimension to a release of this particular style. Terms like power electronics and death industrial is usually the first one wants to grab for when describing what is offered here but having spent a fair amount of time exploring these subgenres [and sub-sub genres] I`d rather you listen with as little guidance as possible, sometimes going in as blind as you can is a rewarding experience that is perhaps a little lost in todays world of hashtags and microcosms.

What initally caught my attention about this release was actually the album artwork, simple yet stylish. The short description given to me further piqued my interest by mentioning a variety of artists Ive long been a fan of, moral of the story being dont underestimate the power of good visuals for your releases. In a subgenre overflowing with black and white BDSM photos or vintage crime scene and often misogynistic imagery this release stands out with an air of individuality that goes against the grain in a scene that has seemingly long lost touch with any redeeming quality or substance it ever contained.

That being said let me be clear, this is most certainly still an experimental release in line with what youd expect from the early era of industrial music with the likes of Throbbing Gristle, Current 93 , Coil and so on however it feels more thought out and more purposeful than the aforementioned microwave droning you often come across in this area.

This is a release rich with texture and rhythmic glitching from start to end with moments of lush almost choral sounding synth work woven into the controlled chaos.

Pre-Order [gelöscht] via Produkt 42 :

Sounds and Shadows Top Darkscene Albums of 2022

In the past four years the “Darkscene” goth adjacent movement has continued to expand at a glorious rate. Here at Sounds and Shadows I have seen a similar growth of our Music Review/ Webcast/ Facebook Group/ grow at an equally surprising rate. Trying to choose top albums of the year when the rate of interesting worthwhile music is firing out of a fire hose of content at an unprecedented rate is an increasing challenge. As always, I will do my best to draw attention to glorious new music that has moved me in some way. Thank you to all our supporters and please keep this scene alive. You are the lifeblood that makes it happen.

This is always so hard, I love so much new music. I started with about 136 bands I reviewed. With hard choices got down to about 60. I really want to make the bands I picked feel really special. Have you all know, I felt pain with every cut. So I am going to break this into genre categories a little.

Gothic Rock/Post Punk/Shoegaze

  1. Kill ShelterAsylumKill Shelter releases their third album Asylum, and the world has started to catch on to the soft-spoken genius setting the standard for this new wave. Featuring a slew of the biggest names of the scene: Stephan Netschio ( Beborn Beton) , Valentina Veil (VV & the Void), Karl Morten Dahl (Antipole) , Emanuel Åström (Agent Side Grinder) Alessandro Belluccio (Ash Code), William Faith (The Bellwether Syndicate), Ronny Moorings (Clan of Xymox). An impressive list of talent and experience which speaks to the respect Pete has catered as a producer and song writer. This album tackles an even darker theme of trauma and the most shocking pain of the human experience. Casting a light through a wide range of vocal prisms. The completion of a journey started just after Damage in 2019 and meticulously refined over four years.

Kill Shelter has done it again. Creating a personal emotional journey through post-traumatic stress with expert production and collaborative vocal performances that shine a light on some of the top singers in the scene. I can’t wait to release and rare upcoming interview on the Sounds and Shadows youtube page. We dig deeply into the process and feelings of one of the most important artists the modern era. When we speak to future musicians who are in the know about what influenced them in our time. Kill Shelter will be the Joy Division like name that trend setters were appreciating in the present.

Asylum [US Version] | Kill Shelter (

2) Aurelio VoltaireThe Black Labyrinth

Has it really been 13 studio albums for Aurelio Voltaire? This review is special to me. As someone who writes “Goth music with a heavy dose of humor” it is hard not to give credit to the OG that inspired me all those years ago. Here he taps into his own inspiration from an artist and film that burned a codpiece shaped scar into every 90’s goths soul. It appears we also share a passion for collecting every talented guest star he could cram into this shadow glass menagerie. Let’s have a look at this list.

15 members of David Bowie’s band spanning nearly every era of the Starman’s career from the pianist on 1972’s The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars to the saxophone player on Black Star, Bowie’s last album.
The Black Labyrinth was co-produced by Mark Plati who produced the 1997 Bowie album, Earthling as well as the post humus release, Toy.

Other guest musicians included members of My Chemical Romance, Trans Siberian Orchestra, Vision Video, The Cog is Dead, Frenchy and the Punk, violinist extraordinaire Mia Asano, Ally the Piper, D and D songstress Ginny D and an international cadre of musicians making up the orchestra and choir.

The 20 song release is clean like twilight in a fantasy world briming with the mystery of a firefly forest and the pageantry of a catholic funeral. Voltaire’s iconic is the ringleader that ties together the spectacle. If you don’t know Voltaire, you have missed one of the most gloriously self-aware experiences in the dark scene. If you do you are in for a journey with one of the great bards of our time. Let goth music be fun. Let it be the giant melting black candle musical theater it was always meant to be. I both teared up and laughed out loud listening to it. You need this album.

The Black Labyrinth ~ A Requiem for the Goblin King | Aurelio Voltaire (

3) Secret ShameAutonomy – I am constantly amazed by the slippery edges and bursting intensity of the NC band. I’m just blown away by how many sonic emotions are crammed into this firefly jar. The haunting lilt of the vocals, the gnashing wolf jaw guitars, the shifty darting baselines. The production here is razor sharp. Anyone who says modern music lacks complexity is not listening to this. This is songwriting that is emotive, that transports you out of your own mind. Blending the best aspects of four genres to create something fresh and provoking. 10/10

Autonomy | Secret Shame (

4) IAMTHESHADOWThe Wide Starlight – Things you can always count on from a new IAMTHESHADOW release: 1) Pedro delivering the richest baritone in modern darkwave. 2) Soul baring poetry 3) Perfect precision of mix and master. Everything else about the sound is completely in the air. “The Wide Starlight” is an expansive new sounds full of twinkling stars over violet plains. The album came out on 10/14 and marks a turn towards hope which my soul has hungered for. Cold Transmission Music has been a fertile creative ground for Portugal’s premier darkscene act. This is a band that has continued to set the standard in European darkscene music that is constantly pushing their own boundaries and core sound. The truly greats make powerful songs while always redefining who they are

The Wide Starlight | IAMTHESHADOW (

5) The Cassandra ComplexThe PlagueRodney Orpheus and The Cassandra Complex have been entrenched in the concept of what we would later call “goth” music since before we had a word to describe it. They have toured with and played festivals with the biggest names in the scene. Starting in 1985 releasing 7 full albums and 3 live albums the last of which “Wetware” on Metropolis Records in 2000. 22 years we waited for a return with “The Plague” to burst forth with a ferocious new energy. Early releases like “Grenade” were thick with an aggressive political message. I fell instantly for this return of piss and vinegar spirit blended with fine blade refinement. A razor edge between emotional concept and ability. Although these are new songs tackling modern concepts of a post capitalism world, the album serves as a greatest hit record. Drawing on individual styles that run the range of their history. It doesn’t forget the tongue firmly in cheek humor, using wit to mock the face of power.

The Plague | The Cassandra Complex (

6) Golden Apes From The Sky – Berlin Germany based band which remains one of the most underrated post punk bands in the world. With Peer Lebrecht unmistakable and encompassing voice crooning poetic romantism that seeps under your skin. I loved the brighter expansive hope Christian, Gerrit, and Frank infused the guitar lines with. The change in concept from “Kasbek” displays another prism of range and proves Golden Apes story is far from over. I’m excited we will get an interview with them in 2023.

From The Sky | Golden Apes (

7) Christian Death Evil Becomes Rule – The most recognized name of the American Proto goth scene from Los Angeles “Evil Becomes Rule” marks the 20th studio album in a legendary career. In our recent interview Valor told me about EBR being a continuation of 2015 The Root of All Evilution. It would be easy to appeal to longtime fans, putting out similar albums in a fan friendly style. Some artists have wonderful careers doing just that. This has never been the Christian Death way. Always slicing the edge in every incarnation. Evil Becomes Rule took me to a new place I never expected. A shadow psychedelic blasphemy of triumph blending world beat Dead Can Dance and roaring power of Judas Priest. Maitri’s vocals are highlighted like never before and cast a sinister ritual of power.

Evil Becomes Rule | Christian Death (

8) Pilgrims Of YearningHadal – Long awaited release from Boston transplants POY which hits the mark perfectly. I love hearing a band grow from album to album by keeping the mystical wanderlust that made their sound stand out, yet graduating their production and layering to make the energy sharper. Juls voice captures a haunting Siouxsie Superstition” 90s vibe while the guitar rhythms fold and dart like a weaver on a loom. This is a band that really exposes their story with brazen courage and beautiful delivery. A contagious spooky tendril of psychedelic darkness winding around your vision. This is a band I have watched grow and refine. It fills my heart to watch the maturity and ascension of their sound and wisdom. I can’t wait to see the next path of their journey.

Hadal | Pilgrims of Yearning (

9) The Burying KindTragic Airwaves – I may be too close to this record. Enraptured by the story surrounding it. I can’t help but be struck by the staggering beauty and truth of it. It was this thing I got to watch grow and refine from infancy into something that mattered. Something that transcended genre and the music business. An abstract feeling that wells within you in solitary moments, a place of memory and blurry edges. This 12-track full length is a solitary lighthouse on a grey shore with Scott-David‘s romantic tragic poetry delivered with piercing emotional impact. The music is layered and complex for decerning listeners to unravel. I love nothing more in this high-speed age than hearing the time and intent that went into an artistic concept. It’s a presence and weight that gives every listen a reverence.

This is an album for connoisseurs. For fans of My Bloody Valentine and The Cure a like. It is a place for diving into mystery and unraveling the depths of something that doesn’t come simple in a world where everything is designed not to make you think harder. We used to rejoice in music that made us swim beneath the surface. It’s time to rejoice in it once again.

Tragic Airwaves | The Burying Kind (

10) Mark E MoonLux Vindictae – New lineup, new sound, and explosive delivery from Isle of Man shadow croon gothic rock Mark E Moon on Cold Transmission Music. A blazing light of vindication as the title states. The first single Blacklight bursts through a wall with shaking intensity. The drums pound relentlessly as Mark delivers confident sadness tinged with raw fury. Phil is spinning barb wire distortion in precision loops. The black mirror reflection of Shelly Rourke on vocals as contrast Mark’s cavern shaking Eldrichesque power. As the engine roars down an unlit highway this album swerves in tone and style without warning leaving you always on your heels. Mark really throws his soul into the vocal delivery. The tracks are all pure heat and poignant, each under 5 minutes.

I think two main changes stand out in contrast to 2021 release “Old Blood ” 1) the extreme nature of the peaks and valleys in tempo and style. This album runs the spectrum where Old Blood worked to perfect a singular idea. 2) Rourke’s vocals have really found a sharp and resilient force to break the power of Mark’s tide. In particular track 4 Drowning is a gorgeous ballad of imagery that highlights the new sound with strongly defined lines. It shows a passion and maturity of song writing that portrays subtle differences in depth as you sink below ever darker waters. I love the panning synth lines. The background to those glimmering delayed guitars flickering through the pressurizing water.

Lux Vindictae | Mark E Moon (

11) Black Angel The Black Rose – I know, I did an 11th album. I just couldn’t bring myself to leave this record off the list. It is so haunting and rock heavy in a time goth music wants to be anything but. Matt has this amazing ability to capture the sleazy opaque waterfall of endless motion regardless of tempo. The vocals by Corey Landis and Maneesha Jones are the perfect seasoning on the dish. I have a confession that will probably have me cancelled by the true metal folks, my favorite Ozzy is “No More Tears” and that includes Sabbath. This album hit with that same timeless power. As long as Matt Vowels is cranking out records, this guy is buying them. Someone really needs to sign him.

The Black Rose | Black Angel (

(Special Mention) Cleopatra RecordsThe Unquiet Grave – Growing up in the Velveeta Valley suburbs of Detroit in a time before the Google search, Spotify playlists, Youtube suggestions, and Sounds and Shadows I had a sacred ritual. Once a month I would coat myself in black from head to toe and pedal my bike to a mini mall which contained a record store. Here in the new CD releases I would take my caddie/busboy money and purchase the latest Cleopatra Records sampler. Now these compilations took many themes, tribute cover albums, up and coming goth bands. This was how you found the next band that connected you to the wider world. I would race back home, tear apart the packaging and dream of one day seeing my own name in the liner notes. This ritual mattered, it made me feel connected to other kids like me that I didn’t know. Somehow, I knew they were out there. When I saw Procession Magazine bring back this series of goth compilations, my faith was confirmed. To see one of our songs, appear here, that dream has finally come true. So, I welcome you all to join me in my room, as I light a candle, press play, and journey into the macabre world of “The Unquiet Grave” searching for dark diamonds in a cruel sea.

Procession Magazine Presents…The Unquiet Grave: The Final Chapter | The Unquiet Grave (


  1. Curse MackeyImmoral Emporium Instant Exorcism moves beyond the prophesy of a post capitalism hellscape and dives into a meat and bone reality. A bizarre of debauchery and barter where every sin in imagination is on display and the price of souls are always plummeting. In a time of surface shimmer and digital commodity the Immoral Emporium casts a sharp reflection that burns to the core of the decay of empathy in the modern age. Instant Exorcism was raw and biting, a mad profit’s fervor. Immoral Emporium is a cleaner enticing beacon. Drawing the listener to their own corruption with shining golden salesmanship.

There is something about the level of narrative imagery and production expertise that stuck me about this album. It haunted me like a re-occurring nightmare, a prophesy of danger that hangs above our future. Curse has been such an impressive part of shaping Industrial music while a part of someone else’s project. It is incredible to see the darkness he is able to articulate when left at the helm of his own vision.

Immoral Emporium | Curse Mackey (

2) ESA Designer Carnage – if you are talking about the modern evolution of EBM (Electronic Body Music) British act ESA and Jamie Blacker have to be part of the opening discussion. This is an artist who has truly defined a genre by meticulous craftsmanship of the musical and visual idea of bass beats so shattering, you feel them in your bones. This album had multiple singles in our Darkscene Singles Chart. Jamie continues to be an innovator in the field of expanding the definition of Electronic music for another generation.

Designer Carnage | ESA (Electronic Substance Abuse) | ESA (

3) <PIG>The Merciless LightRaymond Watts has continued to evolve at an exponential rate. Rather you are speaking of music, personal growth, or human interaction. The industrial progenitor has bounced around the boundaries of what this genre entails for decades, to keep the punk rock ethos of the original concept alive. I love the crushing jagged grind of this record, while hushing the edges, letting the menace whisper and hang in the air. Bringing in an all-star line up of contributors Abbie Aisleen, Jim Davies, En Esch, Mark Heal, Jimmy Livingstone, Mona Mur, Mike Watts. This album brings so many emotive hooks that really highlight how good Raymod has always been at conveying emotions in a compressed infectious package.

The Merciless Light | PIG (

4) Silver WalksVarious Positions – I met Daniel McCullough near a dumpster behind Cold Waves in 2019 and heard “Lantern” in 2020. Immediately I knew this album was going to be something special. Dan is one of the most underrated song writers in modern electronica. The people in the know, they understand this. I hope this album is what makes that clear to the scene at large. I think one of the first points to strike me, all but one song are over 5 minutes. In a world of short singles, Various Positions is stretching your dance floor endurance. While making EVERY song a banger. Infectious dance beats that ebb and flow in texture, with razor blade twists. You can really hear the patient precision that went into each song’s construction. There is a thematic post apocalypse spiritual journey that makes me close my eyes and get lost in the story, while stomping in time to infectious hooks. This whole album rides a highspeed tightrope between progressive and ear candy.

This album also has a spicy list of A + contributors to bring Dan’s vision to light. Stella Soleil , Coral Scere, Tim Heireth,  Marc Heal,  James Francis, Eva X, and many more mixed lovingly by living legend  John Fryer. Part of the testament to this albums power are the names that agreed to be a part of it. Album art & layout // Joshua Mccallister
silver walks logo by Jim Marcus. Eric Oehler wizard shimmers the mastering. Photo of Dan // Kirsten Miccoli I just saw Dan thanked me in the liner notes, so now I am crying.

various positions | silver walks (

5) Dread RisksAutomated Disappointment – GiddyYip this DeathRock Electro Cowboy shit!” A wise man once said about Texas IndustroDoom band Dread Risks. That wise man was me. Releasing 3/25/22 on Re-Mission this album is a return to the meaner barb wire aggression of industrial music. As an evolution from the past this aggression is no longer aimed outward but directed at addressing and concurring personal trauma. I love the molten glass cutting attack and melodic beauty of the vocals. The overhand bastard sword swing of the drumbeats. Berserker rage in clean focus. This is the next great wave in electronic musical concept. I am enthralled with the idea that Industrial music still has fertile land to create new artistic ideas. I even got a thank you in the liner notes, my heart cries.

automated disappointment | Dread Risks

6) KMFDMHyena – This album brings you much of what you love if you are a fan of KMFDM. Bonfire bright drum beats overlayed with trash compactor crushing guitars. I think the biggest change from the KMFDM of my youth is the maturity of Sasha’s voice. It is a more mellow growl without losing the glistening sharp metal. This record is a culmination of injected circulation right into the dance gland. I really keep expecting for a lot of these old school Industrial bands to lose the modern pulse, I keep being surprised. I feel like this is a ban that grew up with me. Their sound evolved at the same rate I needed it to.


7) AUTHOR & PUNISHERKR​Ü​LLER – San Diego, California artists put out this album that is a bit absurd in it’s scope. On paper doing captivating emotive singles in the 5-8 minute range should not work in 2022. Yet, anyone who hits play on this 8 song album is immediately captivated and washed over by the unnerving perfection of these hooks. This truly is something else no one is doing. It is so mysterious and fresh I don’t know how to process it. Which is a rare feeling in 2022.

▶︎ KRÜLLER | Author & Punisher (

8) Spike HellisSpike Hellis – After seeing them at the Skull Festival in Detroit this year, I haven’t been able to put this away. LA based electronic flamethrowers who answered the question if Alec Empire hadn’t pulled a 180 and became a cryptobro what would a cleaner crisper refinement of the magma fury become? Hearing Spike Hellis really helps me understand what is meant by “Electronic Body Music”. It is felt in the tissue as much as heard in the ears. The range of feeling on this chaotic labyrinth darts through every hidden crack of the human experience. It really must be heard live to fully comprehend ,but having a map of the recorded experience can go a long way towards grasping the subtilty of what is happening. I really need to line up an interview with this band in 2023.

Spike Hellis | Spike Hellis (

9) DogtabletAshes – New 5 song EP from Industrial legends Martin King and Jared Louche. I had the pleasure of attending a listening party at the Post Punk Industrial museum where Martin provided some background for these songs. I love the grinding and deliberate nature of these tracks. Track 3 “Careless” Feat: Coral Scere is a haunting and memorable collaboration that shows how Martin continues to get the best out of everyone he works with. Another amazing EP from a legend let off the chain to work with whoever he wants in a style completely their own.

If you are a fan of old school Industrial, this interview is MUST SEE

Ashes | Dogtablet (

10) Deathline InternationalPax Americana – Basically a COP International all-star collaboration which includes living legends like John Fryer, GW Childs IV, Angela Goodman, Steve Watkins, Licia Johnson, sinister guitar lords James Perry & SLam, and vocals by Th3Count. Transporting us to a smashing old school Industrial runaway train with modern clarity and aerodynamic tempo. I think the biggest challenge when bringing together this much talent and trying to give everyone a voice, is the director aspect. Giving everyone a chance to shine in the spotlight. This album really feels like a collaboration. Mutual respect placed in the atom smasher and obliterated into something fresh.

▶︎ Pax Americana | Deathline International (

Special Mention: Gasoline InvertebrateCracked Wax Battery – Brian Gaupner (The Gothscicles, Space Couch, TigerSquak Records) holds a special place in my heart. I feel a bit of twin spirit in how he approaches music. That feeling that music is an experience better shared. The visual of a Cracked Wax Battery is such a striking image. That bleeding yellow goop pouring out of an old battery carcass. Bringing in great artistic names that are also friends of a mutual vision like: Gopal Metro , Ed Cripps, Zoog Von Rock, and MORIS BLAK. A plasma whip of electronic dance beats cracking the air with aerobic intensity. Brian takes some of the jovial madness of Gothscicles off his voice and replaces it with hissing menace. The NES throwback energy of these synth lines are a nerdcore street cred of belonging. Gasoline Invertebrate always makes you feel inside the curtain.

Brian Graupner is inspiring to me in particular for proving to the goth community that our scene can be silly as hell and that is ok. I equally love that he has a project so serious and old school industrial crunch that it leaves no choice but to acknowledge his talent and craft. So, when he makes a Gothsicles album you know it was because he chose to be goofy as hell, which adds a layer of punk rock power.

▶︎ Cracked Wax Battery | Gasoline Invertebrate (


  1. Panic PriestPSYCHOGORIA – Speaking of world class baritone voices Jack never disappoints. New album released10/21/22 on Negative Gain featuring the crooning beauty and slashing guitar mastery of Jack Armond. The Chicago based songsmith always layers the club friendly dance beats with a healthy dose of guitar accents to make a truly distinctive blend. The tempo here is a fast-paced bop, but the bottom of a chasm on the vocals gives every track a sense of soul and foreboding. Every album gets tighter and smoother. Jack’s voice is one of those definitive sounds and elevates everything it touches, and his blend of organic guitar licks and prism explosion synths makes every album memorable. Psychogoria is the most impressive evolution yet. It’s time for everyone to recognize one of the great talents out our modern scene. I just interviewed jack and it will release soon.

▶︎ PSYCHOGORIA | Panic Priest | Midnight Mannequin Records (

2) Vision VideoHaunted Hours – Athens, Georgia pop goth stars have grown more in the last few years than anyone in my memory. The music is nostalgic, expertly crafted with the newest techniques, and delivered with a romantic stirring beauty too often lost in the modern scene. Dusty has an infectious glowing moonbeam of a personality which has made him a public figure outside of music. This band has truly achieved a fresh interpretation of everything you loved in 80’s goth spun in a centrifuge and launched back at you with electron energy.

Haunted Hours | Vision Video (

3) Rohn-LedermanRage – We love music because it has the power to change the energy inside us. To enhance, diminish, alter, the sounds and stories built by artists change our emotional chemistry. Emileigh Rohn (US/ Chiasm) and Jean-Marc Lederman (Belgium/ The Weathermen, Ghost & Writer) have found a balance in their own artistic chemistry beginning in 2021 Venus Chariot on COP International which has continued to refine in a centrifuge into a potent emotional catalyst. With this newest release “RAGE!” they have bottled a frantic and aerodynamic monorail careening over changing landscapes.

I would consider myself a coinsurer of the duo’s collaboration. How is RAGE! different from the previous releases? By being the culmination of a series of experiments to produce a sleeker, faster, more agile vehicle. To refine the fuel of Emileigh‘s lyrics into something that burns hotter with honesty and volatility. The songs all contain a defiance and anger. Not a heavyweight clumsy, smashing anger. A precise, defined glowing fury of purpose. The details and subtilty of the music are built like a virus in their elegance and destructive nature. The vocals hold a sharp edge without bubbling over. It adds a tension that forms the shading of the grand design.

4) The Birthday MassacreFascination – Chibi and company has done more to expand the cone of what is goth music than anyone in the last decade. This new album infused an intensity of emotion due to the band facing some serious real-life trauma. It is explosive like a foam cannon of feeling sprayed on a receptive crowd. There are certain records that ride the line between fantasy and precision execution so perfectly it is hard to see the lines. That is how this album feels. I keep waiting for TBM to run out of gas, and they keep lighting bon fires.

Fascination | The Birthday Massacre (

5) Null DeviceThe Emerald Age – Wisconsin based dark synth band with a new driving political statement full of spiraling hooks and razor edge tapestry. The perfect mix of this album is so economical it makes the motion and pace feel like a UFO that darts and accelerates in a way modern technology has not produced. The vocal duties bouncing between Eric and Jill feels like a conversation of perfect syncopation. This album came out in Nov 2022 and every time I hear it holds a familiarity and nostalgia that defies logic.

The Emerald Age | Null Device (

6) Minuit Machine24 – This release combining the amazing talents of Hélène de Thoury and Amandine Stioui is staggering for its quality as well as tragic because it might be the last pairing the two. Helene has suffered some health issues which have caused her to step back from the project for the time being. This EP is nothing short of breathtaking in it’s seamless pulsing sophistication. Every track harnesses an effortless magnetic vouge you can’t help but want to be close to. Amandine’s vocal’s ring through the air with every phrase like a struck chime. A haunting electronic overture that paints a perfect moment while promising what could have been.

24 | Minuit Machine (

7) HexheartFuneral Flowers – Seatle WA SynthBard Jasyn Bangert has a June release of cybernetic serotonin pumped straight into your brain. I love the “Upstairs At Erics” bopping light synth and nostalgic warms. These tracks wrap around you like a favorite sweater. The AI captivating vocal effects are a fresh note contrasting the synthpop throwback. Every track feels like a cult 80’s film you are the only one who remembers. I really want to hear a cleaner vocal for the next album, because it is the final step towards perfection.

▶︎ Funeral Flowers | Hexheart (

8) Sapphiria VeeAerial HumanSapphiria Vee has sprouted wings and taken to stormy skies with the newest release “Ariel Human“. A bracing new pace and sinister promise. Featuring a rouges gallery of impressive collaboration from Jean Marc- Lederman, Roger Ebner, then Mixed and mastered by sonic wizard Jules Seifert. Send your mind a flight. Sapphira’s ability to draw talent towards her with both her powerful voice and magnetic personality gives her access to a wide brigade of masterwork tools. As a producer she knows just when and where to implement each sound like a conductor in a symphony.

Aerial Human | Sapphira Vee (

9) Eva XI Dream Of Reality – The progression of shadow pop artist Eva X has been a magnificent sight to behold. After a series of singles and videos this full albums with impressive remixes really shows the elevation Gaby can achieve. A poetic blend of vulnerable beating heart, and higher concept science fiction that paints a wonderful journey while keeping the hooks high and tight.

I Dream of a Reality | Eva X (

10) JunksistaOA – This German based band on COP International is one I haven’t given nearly enough press to. Every time I hear them I am absolutely floored by the razor wire combination of owning a space in your head pop melodies and the way too cool to hang out with me punk rock attitude. It just drips with effortless expression and after party in the know. It is hard to hear this and not feel inside the most exclusive salon where everyone is invited. Speaking of invited the album features a who’s who of guest talent. This album deserves a special award for band I put off the longest to deep dive into that left me regretting every moment I wasted not knowing them.


Genres Are Dumb I Just Love It

  1. Sidewalks and SkeletonsExorcism – I recently had the pleasure of interviewing Sidewalks and Skeletons for the webcast and was really excited to expand my knowledge of the “WitchHaus” genre. When I first decided to dive in I reached out to a few friends: Kenzi Burke (FIRES) and Hunter Hunter (W/O) for suggestions. Sidewalks and Skeletons of England was one of the first suggested. I suppose going in I had some pre conceived notions of what “WitchHaus” meant, but I have to say I was presently surprised by the texture and diversity of sound on this album. From track one “Exorcism” a glitchy sliding bass beat slither of technomancer energy tendrils, to “Shadow” feat: Goo Monday with it’s throbbing electronic club pulse, this album rings with a clarity and precision that tells a winding story of internal energy. I kept being struck by influences I never expected to encounter like shoegaze and ethereal which gave the entire journey a slick and winding synthesis. I am always impressed when in 2022 I hear something new. A fresh blend of ideas from a chemist taking previous concepts and making new science. It doesn’t happen enough. It is happening here.

EXORCISM | Sidewalks and Skeletons (

2) Mona MurSnake Island – German Electro punk Icon released this guitar heavy banger of an album featuring Goldkind. I love the Avant guard crunchy slam poetry punk ethos feel. The individual tracks capture such a range of furious emotions but in the end always return to being a hard rock album. In a time where music is so plentiful and genres are so fractured, it feels refreshing to hear hard rock. The cover of Motorhead classic “Ace of Spades” the dripping with venom and intensity. The single Schieldwall is sun gleaming on a silver hammer smashing the quarry with reckless abandon. This record encapsulates what previous generations artists have to teach the next about how music can be the spearhead of a movement.

Snake Island | Mona Mur (

3) Josie PaceIV0X10V5 – 2022 was such a big year for Josie and Ken, Detroit’s Industrial Pop darlings. Fresh off a tour with Aesthetic Perfection they are winning over every crowd they are in front of. Josie is drenched in “It” factor from her voice, attitude, and look. This record is brimming with infectious singles, slamming beats, and a voice that laser cuts the darkness. Now on Negative Gain they are strapped to a rocket ship speeding towards superstar. IVOX10V5 is the perfect refinement album that will finally show the world what Detroit audiences have seen for a while.

IV0X10V5 | Josie Pace (

4) Kali DreamerOctober Requiem: 1988 – Derek Christopher turned me on to this Columbus OH artist who is doing a truly unique blend of old school goth and hip hop cadence with a macabre edge. I was immediately hooked, the poetry of the lyrics with the truthful confidence of cadence. You can’t mistake the terror rap elements of Esham in the dark lyric style but the talent and beauty of Kali’s vocals add a modern and gorgeous element. I was truly floored by the quality of this. I just don’t hear enough to surprise me with it’s uniqueness anymore. This album achieved that.

October Requiem: 1988 | Kali Dreamer (

5) Katy Needs A LifeWith Friends Like Bees – This is another special release. I feel like I watched it grow up. Born here right in Kalamazoo MI, in Collin Schipper‘s (Amaranth) studio, done by Katy May (Sounds and Shadows). This record is everything I love about ultra sad dreamgaze pop, with none of the pretention I often associate with the genre. Every song is a flailing arms, heart flinging, explosion of narrative intensity. The music of Reggie, David, and Jake is a furious and frantic cohesion of chaos and pastel dreams. Katy has a voice full of purity and unapologetic raw truth that blasts through a sea of cold ultra-produced crystal. This is such wonderous walking around with your own thought’s music.

This record is the first full length with the entire band and spells a glorious future for Katy and company. On top of that it is expertly mastered by none other than Jason Corbett (Jackknife Sound Studios) (Actors). I think sometimes those of us that do musical support of others get lost when it comes to our own projects. This is an unforgettable must have record.

With Friends Like Bees | Katy Needs A Life (

6) Lorelei DreamingRetold Fables – Long have I awaited this 6 track EP complete with wonderful remixes by Chicago dystopian pop princess Laura. It’s so clear and textured from their previous release. Laura’s voice breaks through the wall and takes it’s rightful place on center stage. The album opens with an absolute banger in Of Stars. I’m loving the rippling synth sounds to add a fantasy feel. Each song is a striding step forward for an armor clad paladin facing down the demons surrounding her. This album was so worth the wait and every song is an adventure. The remixes are a brilliant contribution with the likes of Kanga, Sawtooth, Eva X, Angel Metro, and more. I love seeing so many top tier ladies involved.

Retold Fables | Lorelei Dreaming (

7) SINEMantis Complete – Texas nightmare whisper artist Rona Rogueheart dropped this culmination of the Mantis journey in November. A thrumming David Lynch fever dream impossible to place in a category box. The album cover is so appropriate as an angler fish draws you through the underwater darkness with a glittering light, only to open it’s jaws and bite down on you. It’s sinister subterfuge with the electric tension of a great thriller. This record also includes some unreal remixes by the likes of Clan Of Xymox and Leatherstrip. A couple different singles here which placed on the S & S darkscene singles chart like my favorite track “Je Suis”. Another album that charts its own course into mystery.

Mantis 1 | SINE (

8) The PicassosExhumed – I love nothing more than the chance to shout to the sky about a gifted and haunting band in my own backyard of Michigan. We even have the honor of playing with them at Skull Festival 11/20/22 at Noir Leather in Royal Oak Michigan. This album which dropped August 2022 is a darting ebony fencing match of furious clashing metal that strikes and counters with such speed you lose sight of the precision in the illusion of chaos. Charles is a master chef of sound, taking ingredients with familiar tastes and adding a pinch here and a skosh there. Some Pixies, Nick Cave, Violent Femms, flamenco guitars, stirred in a pot, raising the heat. The result is a powerful and heady stew served with pageantry and soul. This is truly one of Detroit’s great talents of the decade.

Exhumed | thePicassos (

9) The Waning MoonThe Waning Moon – Wonderous new collaboration project from Zac Campbell (The Kentucky Vampires) , and Ariel Maniki (The Black Halos). Two powerhouse talents of the modern traditional goth scene forging an alloy of blackened metal which echos with loss and remorse. Unlike their more organic percussion based projects TWM features aa blistering tempo freight train which unshackles Campbell to terrorize the fretboard and Ariel to use a haunting cadence full of ice cold foundation and strength. Only 4 tracks on this EP, but each sets the tone for a future force that fills a need in fans who hunger for traditional goth.

The Waning Moon | The Waning Moon (

10) Sever The ServantsSever The Servants – Brand new collaboration that sprung from the Sounds and Shadows group. A world grinding doom tank apparatus rolling through a nightmare hellscape of Hide Tepes and Mike Nolen imagination. Stone walls on all sides as Hide starts filling the room with dank modular synth water. Mike who doesn’t usually do vocals hisses out a poisonous danger that left me floored and impressed. I hungrily await the future offerings of this project. A perfect synthesis of styles to form a stronger bond.

Sever the Servants | Sever the Servants | Sever The Servants (

11) AssasunSunset Skull – German song architect Alexander Donat of Vlimmer has changed gears once again with such a massive swerve proving once again there is nothing he cannot do. This new project is a psychedelic electro punk disco with shades of Tuxedomoon, Legendary Pink Dots, and Coil. It never solidifies into something familiar, it never quite strays into madness. A tightrope walk underwater. This record is almost disturbing in it’s creative Germaness. I can’t wait to hear what is next.

The World I Will Leave EP | ASSASSUN | Blackjack Illuminist Records (

12) VaselyneThe Sea Says – The Dutch duo Yvette Winkler and Frank Weyzig with the eclectic blend of rolling foam over a dark sea. This world beat blend of orchestral synth and organically woven vocals which hold a history in their entrancing delivery. Contrasted by sharp and vibrant guitar lines to add modern rock to the ancient mysteries. The PJ Harvey cover hits hard on my nostalgia bone but crafts a fresh and unique lens to the alt rock classic. If I ever go into a cave overlooking the sea and light a fire to dance shadows into the morning, this is the record I’ll bring.

The Sea Says | Vaselyne (

Top 12 Sounds and Shadows Darkscene Singles of 2022

I am so proud of how the Sounds and Shadows Darkscene Singles Chart has grown in the last 2 years. This chart is chosen entirely by our groups Artists, Djs, Reviewers, Promotors, and Superfans. I took the number 1 pick from each month this year. So they were all top picks in no particular order.

Jan – Gravity Corp – Another Day

Feb – Dead CoolGame Of Trust

March – LyciaSimpler Times

April – StoneburnerContacting Iris

May – LeathersRunaway

June – Dead Cool – Send Me An Angel

July – Kill Shelter (Feat Stefan Netschio) – In This Place

Aug – Pilgrims of YearningLa Mar

Sept – LeathersUltraviolet – Artoffact Records

Oct – Panic Priest AngelStealNegative Gain

Nov – Matt HartTerraform

Dec – The Bellwether SyndicateBeacons

Gravity CorpsAnother Day – Spacey driving dance beats from Mark Sousa. This futurepop trance rhythm with the melodic bass whisper vocals and sharp mastering of Eric Oehler (Klack). This is sensational music to fire finger guns on the dancefloor to.

Dead Cool Game Of Trust – Wilmington, North Carolina stellar splashing synthwave goodness full of mystery and mayhem. Ringing front striking vocals and cascade keys. The husband and wife John and Angela Yeagher create a sinister story that is always driving forward. Awesome cover art to complete the image by Morgan Elizabeth.


LyciaSimpler Times – A triumphant return for the Arizona based trance coldwave band. This track is a perfect blend of pastel light and dark hues. Oil spreading in a rain puddle. Mike VanPortfleet‘s vocals sit deep within the mix to create a gentle specter haunting your mind. I love seeing a band I loved in my youth break new ground while keeping their soul.

StoneburnerContacting Iris – Steven Archer is always pushing the edge hard and furious. This time by interweaving with Sci Fi author Peter Watts with a punishing new sonic canvas so relevant to the emotional mindset of the population. This artistic journey keeps getting larger and more intricate.

Contracting Iris | Stoneburner (

LeathersRunaway – Another gorgeous smash hit from Shannon Hemmett of Vancouver. As part of the darkscene darlings Actors this synthy dreamwave project continues to grow and impress with every release. Masterful execution with a personal delivery.

Dead Cool Send Me An Angel – I had no idea anyone had 2 number one wins in 2022 but here we are 🙂 From Wilmington, North Carolina the darkwave duo of Johnny and Angela Yeagher made this broken glass glittering on concrete version of the 1989 Real Life dance classic. A cool take on the original with much more menace to change the feeling. The band continues to be a fan favorite with our listeners and a number 1 single win speaks to their bright future.

Kill Shelter Feat (Stefan Netschio) – In This Place – I have a full review on S & S as well as an interview with Pete releasing tomorrow. However it is fitting this single off an early contender for album of the year is top song in July. Stefan of Beborn Beton delivers heavy resonant drops of tone into an unlit cave pool. 10/10 absolute banger

Asylum [European Version] | Kill Shelter (

Pilgrims Of YearningLa Mar – I was so ecstatic to see the Boston shadowsynth band finish in 1st place. Delicious 90’s Siouxsie with texture snake delay guitars. Juls delivers a haunting and soulful performance. This is a must have in your collection. One of the most criminally underrated bands in the modern darkscene.

La Mar | Pilgrims of Yearning (

LeathersUltraviolet – So we had two double winners in 2022. Just shows how much of this year was a blur to me. Shannon deserves every great thing that happens to her though. New single from the Canadian synth extravaganza that is the project of Actors members and currently on tour with them. I love how if this was ever a “side project” it has evolved into a distinct powerhouse of twilight all on it’s own. There is a reason it was a definitive #1 in our most voted on chart to date. Force of nature single you need.

Ultraviolet | LEATHERS (

Panic Priest AngelSteal – Jack has a gorgeous and razor streaming style between the cracks of the darkscene. Warm crooning Baritone, waterfall backdrop synths, and lightning crackle guitar leads. Panic Priest always needs more recognition and having this single as number 1 is a fitting start. People need to start recognizing Jack as one of the top voices in the modern scene. Interview coming up with Jack in Jan 2023

ANGELSTEAL | Panic Priest | Midnight Mannequin Records (

Matt HartTerraform – Great to see UK artist Matt Hart get the number 1 spot. This single is a banging narrative short film in sonic form. Dystopian sci fi full of underground machinery, perseverance and rebirth. I love the sharp edges and skull smashing mid-tempo beats.


The Bellwether SyndicateBeacons – Chicago show stopper’s have a brilliant new single that roars like a muscle car charging down Woodward Ave. Flames spewing out the engine to chase back the darkness. William croons with an extra edge of piercing determination. The mix is clear but always feels like a toe on the line which makes it feel dangerous, on the verge of shattering the glass bubble. They just took this song on the road with Then Comes Silence from Sweeden. Of everyone I currently follow in the modern darkscene, no one has more “rockstar” energy than William with a mic in his hand.

Beacons | The Bellwether Syndicate (

Darkness falls across the land The midnight hour is close at hand. Creatures crawl in search of the best in new darkscene music.

It is Halloween weekend, that special time of the year where everyone celebrates leaning into the darkness which our scene embraces all year long. As I get ready for an Amaranth show on Sat I will share some reviews of what I have been listening to during the spookiest of months.

Ashes FallenNew Normal – Brand new Single from Sacramento goth rockers, this one has this awesome Batcave B52s vibe. Energetic and dangerous like a twirling skirt on a dance floor. I can hear the curl of James lip on the vocal deliver. The keyboard has a Hammond B3 organ feel that adds to the Skoth Madness effect. banger.

New Normal | Ashes Fallen (

Cyborg AmokEtiam – Another quirky goth rock hybrid blend from the Father/Son NJ project. A definite psychedelic Syd Barrett meets Depeche Mode flavor. The multiple decades of influence, sharing music within your family really gives a unique sound and every song feels like a legacy and discussion.

released October 8, 2022

All songs written by Greg Bullock, (except, Golden Years, by David Bowie).
All songs performed by Cyborg Amok:
Greg Bullock: Lead Vocal and Synthesizers.
Brydon Bullock: Drums/Percussion and Backing Vocal.

Additional musicians:
Adam Vaccarelli: Bass on all songs (except Wicked Close).
Frani Lugo: Guitar on (Some) Sleep Tonight.

Drums, Vocals and “(Some) Sleep Tonight” Guitar recorded at Retromedia Studios, Red Bank, NJ
Engineered by Adam Vaccarelli.
Synths, Loops, Sequencing and some backing vocals recorded in GABWorx, Studio B, New Egypt, NJ
Engineered by Greg Bullock

Produced by Greg Bullock
Mixed by Adam Vaccarelli at Retromedia Studios.
Mastered by Mark Trewella at Full Circle Mastering, Ashville, NC

Desmond DoomSurf​-​Goth EP – My favorite Shoegaze is The Jesus and Mary Chain style surf Shoegaze. It makes sense I fell immediately in love with Australian surf goth with a haunting blend of New Order Movement and the slushy cascading bop of The Ventures. A lot to get lost in here, people need to know about this.

Surf-Goth EP | Desmond Doom (

Secret ShameAutonomy – Currently out on tour with one of my favorite modern darkscene bands Vision Video I am constantly amazed by the slippery edges and bursting intensity of the NC band. I’m just blown away by how many sonic emotions are crammed into this firefly jar. The haunting lilt of the vocals, the gnashing wolf jaw guitars, the shifty darting baselines. The production here is razor sharp. Anyone who says modern music lacks complexity is not listening to this. 10/10.

Recorded at Drop of Sun June 2021 and February 2022 by Alex Farrar
Mixed by Alex Farrar
Produced by Secret Shame and Alex Farrar
Mastered by Carl Saff

Cover art by Lena and Aster
Cover photo by Jonny Leather
Layout by Nathan


released October 28, 2022

Lena – Vocals, synth
Aster – Guitar, backing vocals on Zero
Matthew – Bass, synth, backing vocals on Hide, additional guitar on Accelerate and Pink Staircase
Nathan – Drums

Additional guitar and backing vocals on Hide by Lemon Malandra

Autonomy | Secret Shame (

METAMORPH (Margot Day)Kiss of the Witch – Lovely new shadowhouse from New York with the captivating Margot Day and produced by Erik Gustafson of (Adoration Destroyed). This is wispy ghost grind, club music with a captivating cyclone of soul circling the abyss. I love hearing Erik’s fingerprints behind Margot’s storytelling and delivery. A powerful combo to fill the room behind your cauldron.

Kiss of the Witch | METAMORPH (Margot Day) | Metamorph (Margot Day) (

Tears for ʇhe DyingEyes Wide Open in the Dark – I have an upcoming interview with the raw stalking intensity from the Georgia batcave project Adria Stembridge. The purple flame fury of her truth will make the hair on your arms stand up. You can really hear the devotion to early goth sounds in every track. Blood runs down the walls of my vision when I play this EP. A wandering chaos surrounded by tendrils or The Cure Pornography and sinister siren vocals full of Switchblade Symphony. One of those bands I really look forward to seeing live to fully appreciate

Eyes Wide Open in the Dark | Tears for ʇhe Dying (

KMFDMHY​Ë​NA – So this isn’t a band that needs my support. One of the well known voices in Industrial music. I recently saw them for this tour in Pontiac while seeing Bradley Bills of CHANT. This album brings you much of what you love if you are a fan of KMFDM. Bonfire bright drum beats overlayed with trash compactor crushing guitars. I think the biggest change from the KMFDM of my youth is the maturity of Sasha’s voice. It is a more mellow growl without losing the glistening sharp metal.


Kali DreamerOctober Requiem: 1988 – Derek Christopher turned me on to this Columbus OH artist who is doing a truly unique blend of old school goth and hip hop cadence with a macabre edge. I was immediately hooked, the poetry of the lyrics with the truthful confidence of cadence. You can’t mistake the terror rap elements of Esham in the dark lyric style but the talent and beauty of Kali’s vocals add a modern and gorgeous element. I was truly floored by the quality of this. I just don’t hear enough to suprise me with it’s uniqueness anymore. This album achieved that.

Favorite Track: Hellbender – This was relatable, bouncing, heavy concept gorgeous flow. The guitar was a perfect contrast. Everything about this fusion sound is pure chef kiss.

October Requiem: 1988 | Kali Dreamer (

No Rest For The Wicked (30th Anniversary Edition) by Mentallo & The Fixer – Gary Dassing Interview

How time flies. One day I’m a 20-year-old music geek working at a college radio station and a colleague suggests that I listen to this band called Mentallo & The Fixer. Since I was a comic book geek as well, I was immediately sucked in by the name. The beats. The textures. The freeform song composition. I was elated that such a band could elicit such a visceral reaction from me, especially a band from the States. Thirty years later okay, yes I’m still a geek, but M&TF‘s debut release, “No Rest For The Wicked” remains as fresh and powerful as it did in 1992. To mark the anniversary, Re: Mission Entertainment has issued the “No Rest for the Wicked” 30th Anniversary Edition. While it has fewer bonus tracks than the 2018 digital reissue, it has everything that’s expected plus a few new surprises by way of new mixes.

No one is more surprised of the album’s staying power than M&TF‘s vocalist and programmer Gary Dassing, who, with his brother Dwayne, have been the driving force behind this band now entering its fourth decade.

Gary took time to talk to me from his home in Texas to give this college radio music geek a chance to look into the mind of a cutting edge, yet affably modest, electronic music pioneer. Funny thing is by his own admission, he’s not much of a gearhead, or a technologist of any sort.

M&TF, Circa 1992

Gary Dassing: I’m clueless. I’m behind the times and I’ll put it to you this way, it’s been probably 10 years I’ve been without the Internet. Just last month I subscribed. You can call me old school and it works for me. I’m a bit of a Luddite even though I do music via technology and tend to get more things done without the distraction of the Internet.

Sounds & Shadows: I can appreciate that. And while a lot of things have changed in 10 years, at the same time I’m hard pressed to say you’ve haven’t missed anything.

GD: Right. When I started getting online it was in 1986 on bulletin boards I had a phone modem, real archaic, ancient technology. I started out with the Commodore 64, so it’s been a while.

S&S: Yeah, the phone you’re talking to me on right now is a more powerful computer than a C-64.

GD: The music program that we used on the Commodore was setup using a timer next to the computer because it would take about 20 minutes to load the software off an old floppy disk.

S&S: Yeah, I remember those.

GD: So, technology surely has come a long way.

S&S: But since you brought it up, how do you reconcile that in your mind like that? You wouldn’t consider yourself a technologist and yet that is your means of creativity.

GD: The past year it’s been a double-edged sword for me. I practice piano with both hands at least a couple of hours a day. I was able to sight read music when I was younger. I’ll tell you a story about this. Before my dad passed away, we were at my aunt’s house and she had a piano and he said to me, “Well, can you play me one of your songs on piano?” He had listened to a lot of our music and I’m like, “Well, no, not really. I can play you a melody line, but not full-on chords.” Then it hit me that I probably should learn to play. 

I was a freshman in high school in1983 when Dwayne and I were a conventional band. I started out on drums and my drumming lagged. We were playing in a lot of cover bands. One night there were these guys we had been practicing with for six months and it sort of fell apart. The singer and the bassist said, “Well, my parents said I have to put my school first”, and this and that. As Dwayne and I were driving home I was listening to a Soft Cell cassette, “The Art of Falling Apart”. This was a turning point for me because Soft Cell is an electronic band with two people. I immediately asked Dwayne why we couldn’t do what Soft Cell is doing. 

In 1985 we had a lawn mowing business. I was mowing lawns and working fast food making $3.35, minimum wage at the time. I sold my electronic drum kit for a drum machine for $800, a lot of money at the time. The drum machine contained only eight sounds in it. Today, you can purchase a $200 drum machine with 2000 sounds.

S&S: I know, you can download an app that’ll give you 1000 sounds or something crazy like that.

GD: But it was our passion. We set specific goals doing music. Dwayne was a techie back then and was able to obtain software. He went to electronics school and graduated from the University A&M with a bachelor’s degree in electronics. He was on board with it. It was like his little science experiment to see if he could do it, and little by little we began buying equipment. My parents didn’t help us financially when it came to our music. They did co-sign for a loan. So, mowing lawns and working fast food we were throwing all our money on this new technology, keyboards. Back then it wasn’t heard of, especially in the United States. Everybody wanted to be into rock music. 

We were musically influenced by our older sister who was heavily into music and had an awesome stereo system and buying albums of early new wave from the late 70s and early 80s like Blondie, Berlin, Gary Numan, The Cars, Ramones. She would let me into her room and play records for me and I look at album covers and was fascinated by the imagery. For me it created lyrical and imaginative emotions.

S&S: I seem to remember reading somewhere that you guys were really into the early work of Orchestral Maneuvers in the Dark.

GD: I can tell you a story about that too. In 1983 I had heard of OMD, this is before they had any hits and were still considered underground in the US. Dwayne and I were at the mall looking into one of these bins of discount cassettes. I found one of their cassettes titled “Dazzle Ships” for two dollars and I bought it. My friends and I went out that night and I put in the cassette, and we were laughing at it because it was sort of bizarre.

S&S: It is a very quirky, eccentric record.

GD: After listening to it a couple of times, and as quirky and sort of cheesy as it could be, there was a lot of experimentation in it too. Then it began to stick, and I liked it. I think they were the first band to use an Emulator on a recording. 

S&S: Dazzle Ships is my favorite OMD record, and it’s like, [did] they even know what was coming just a few short years later? How spot on was some of the stuff they did on that?

GD: It’s crazy because some of these bands, I don’t know if it was just timing, or luck. My brother and I are very fortunate. In all honesty, we sort of thought we may not get anywhere with our music, but we were going to do it because we wanted this. Passion. As it began to happen for us, I set our expectations low. I read somewhere the secret to happiness is low expectations, “Whether you’re getting started, working on a new project, or simply trying to fight self-doubt, keeping your expectations low and your standards high is the ultimate plan for success.” 

S&S: Smart, so either way, it’s either you’re either satisfied, or it’s a pleasant surprise.

GD: I feel very blessed in that sense after 30 years I’m surprised we even have a fan base. I’m surprised that most of what we just released sold out practically. I’m scratching my head here thinking, “Wow”

S&S: Well, think of it this way… Now, I’m going to speak as a fan, not as an interviewer for a moment.  think about what was going on at the time. Very few bands were doing that, especially coming out of the States. So any band(s) that raise that bar, whether they’re making money or they’re not making money, other artists are going to take notice. At least that’s what I get from it.

GD: I see what you’re saying. Because we broke ground in Europe first. In all honesty, I don’t know how the hype started here but I remember Dave Heckman at Metropolis. He was running the largest mail order service for underground music in America out of Philadelphia called Digital Underground and had not yet start Metropolis Records. He dealt solely with new wave, punk, and electronica of any type. He called me up one day and said, “Well, Gary, I’m thinking about starting a label and I want you on it.” I said that was cool and we started up this friendship and things rolled on from there. A lot of people sort of said to me, “Y’all from Texas?”, especially people from Europe with this romanticized idea that it’s cowboys and Indians.

S&S: They expected John Wayne to step off the plane?

GD: Right. I say “Howdy” all the time. It’s a friendly greeting with the western states in the US. The albums on Zoth Ommog that came out, Revelations 23 and Where Angels Fear to Tread. I think it sparked their curiosity hearing this because we are from Texas, and it sounded very European to them.

I was a kid in a room recording music and didn’t have a clue how the music was making a mark in Europe. My brother went out to clubs all the time. I was sort of a recluse and rarely went out and in an odd way I felt like I didn’t fit in. I’d be the kid in blue jeans and a white shirt.

S&S: Okay, you didn’t feel the need to, like, dress the part or anything?

GD: Right. To me industrial was an attitude. I remember some of the first bands I was listening to growing up that I considered industrial, like Cabaret Voltaire. I see them with the white shirt and blue jeans and maybe a leather jacket, no frills. It was about the music.

S&S: Was the dress code enforced, so to speak, that early on; especially at something like a Cabaret Voltaire gig? I mean, were you seeing a lot of like, the black and the eyeliner and the, […] “The Look”?

GD: Not in the 80s. My club days were in the 80s and hanging around a bunch of new wavers, but at the same time, there were no sub genres. If you went to a club back then you could hear The Smiths, Depeche Mode, Cabaret Voltaire. It was all a mix, listening to underground music. Now there may be a club night where it was strictly deemed as industrial or electronic but that could range anywhere from, Depeche Mode, Soft Cell, Test Department or Coil.

S&S: So, these are the bands that were setting the trends, there wasn’t anything really set to follow yet.

GD: Exactly. You hit the nail on the head there. Where I grew up it was a different time back then. I grew up in San Antonio and it was considered the heavy metal capital of the world. People who were into this genre, underground alternative music would meet up at a specific place. It’s not like there were Riverheads or what I consider Goths. Although some people may have had that image. It was a very colorful era. You could be a normal Joe walking in off from the street or be like my brother who had his hair Aqua Netted two feet high in the air. If you were there, you were there for the music, everyone getting along and not having the attitude like, “I’m too cool to be around you”. 

I still listen to electronic music, but I listen to other forms. I was listening to, if it was electronic music back then, Project Pitchfork. I listen to Future Sounds of London, Orbital, a lot of shoegazer music and heavily into the Cocteau Twins and The Sundays. 

I have a different outlook on things. I don’t listen to pop radio. I listen to a very wide variety of music and to be honest, I stopped listening to a lot of industrial around 92 or 93. I feel the more I listen to industrial I didn’t want it to influence me. Many bands today, unfortunately, in our scene, sound similar and not have one thing that defines them. I know what defines Dwayne and me. We would do a lot of instrumental pieces that didn’t fit the standard. I can give you several instances like on our first Zoth Ommog release, Revelations 23. 

I remember the label manager Talla calling me saying, “The DAT tape that you sent us, the master DAT, there’s something wrong with it! There’s a pop song on the end of it or something” and I’m thinking that was a fresh DAT tape. There’s no way that tape could have gotten altered. And I began thinking about the track listing. I ask Talla, “Is it a piano piece? A nice little piano piece?” He’s like, “Yes, that’s it.” I said, “That’s meant to be on there. It represents the calmness after the storm. He’s like, “Oh! I got it. It’s artistic.”

S&S: (laughs) So you’re trying to close it out gracefully?

GD: Right, right. After we pummeled your ears. Yeah. We want you to go and let out that sigh of relief and from there on we were able to get away with doing things like that. We received a good response from fans saying they liked it. It opens the fan’s mind, so it fit perfectly in there.  

Today, I listen mostly to classical music. I would say 90% of what I listen to today is classical music.

S&S: Oh, okay.

GD: I want our fans ears open to the possibilities of something otherworldly and not be defined by one genre. Industrial in the beginning was like you could do anything and get away with it and this is what I wanted. I want this for Dwayne and I so people wouldn’t be shocked if they hear something sweet or depressing but beautiful like bittersweetness after a heavy dance song. I want there to be an even mix of emotions.

S&S: Now, that was your attitude, then. Do you still feel that way now?

GD: I’ve gone through a lot of phases musically like on the last three albums. I wanted to experiment sonically. I wanted to put out ear candy that would screw with people. They weren’t necessarily songs. They were just crazy soundscapes.

S&S: I was listening to Day of Ascension just before we got on here and doing what my ear does, I’m sort of like, you know, following along and trying to dissect it. What I got from it… […] there’s the beat, that’s the bedrock, which is what the beat is for. But in your case, it’s like you sort of moved away from the whole idea of there being the treble instrument, or like, the keyboard sounds and the electronic sounds having the melodic element. It seems to me like the bassline that runs through it has sort of the melodic element to it, that locks in with the rhythm and holds everything together and then the electronics are kind of free to do whatever they want.

GD:  I’ll tell you how I picked up making bass lines melodic from listening to John Taylor of Duran Duran play bass. He would always play very melodically, and he learned that method from the bassist in the group Chic.

S&S: Bernard Edwards?

GD: Yes. He plays very melodically and I’m picking up things from the past and learning things from people that aren’t in the genre and applying it to my music.

You’re the first person that I am going to tell this to. Dwayne and I have not worked on music cohesively in 25 years, since 1997. We decided to get back together in December 2021. I’m done with my experimental days; like what I did on my last three albums. It’s crazy ear candy that has no vocals. It’s digitally edited. I told him that I want to get back to my roots and if he would like to join me and hop on board. He said yes. We have 20 songs in the working stages right now.

S&S: Okay if I mentioned that?

GD: Yeah. Like I said, you’re the first person who can print this.

S&S: Excellent. Thank you.

GD: On the first album “No Rest for The Wicked”, my brother and I were not living in the same city. He moved to Austin for better job prospects, and I was in San Antonio still wanting to work on music and that’s when I wrote all the songs for “No Rest…..” I had no intention of being a vocalist. The previous vocalist we had for our previous band was great. I thought I am never going to top him by a longshot. But I had all these old vocal effects and processors that did strange things and decided to do it for the fun of it. The only people who are going to hear this are my parents and a few of my friends, right?  If it sounds horrible my friends can make fun of me. My parents already think it’s noise, but they always encouraged us. They didn’t understand it, but knew we were on to something because technology was involved. No disrespect intended but my parents were country folks.

S&S: Let me segue to a question that I typically ask because I think we’re heading in that direction anyway.

GD: Yeah. Go for it.

S&S: Now. You’ve told me your musical influences and what you take away from them.  Do you draw from anything outside of music, or even the arts altogether, as far as what you do?

GD: Yeah. Good question. One of the reasons we have an eclectic group of friends is my brother and I started going to art galleries at a young age. At that age it was weird material. I remember one art piece having holograms. It was the first time anyone had done anything with holograms. It had this hologram set up on glass plates in San Antonio. We met a few people there and this sort of got us going to art shows. From there we met people who were into performance art. I started doing tape loops for their shows and art displays. It was generally ambient. People would walk by and hear a loop while looking at the art. 

S&S: Like sound design type of stuff?

GD: Right. But it became more elaborate. We have a friend who is a well-known performance artist in Texas. I used to do the music for his art installations. Our friend is David Zamora Casas. This is late 80s. His art shows are very elaborate like plays. It takes him a week to set up the installation and design. These are one or two-off performances. I did all the music for his shows. Sometimes, he used Mentallo material, but instrumental version to doing spoken word or dialogue over or sing his own lyrics. Most of his material was controversial at the time. He would sing about the AIDS epidemic. One of our close friends who was a DJ in San Antonio was the first person to die of AIDS in a hospice. Movie soundtracks were a big thing in my house growing up. We often buy movie soundtracks. I remember the first one my parents bought me was when I was five or six. It was the soundtrack to Jaws. Another movie soundtrack I had was Tron, which was the first electronic album we had and composed by Wendy Carlos. She’s a pioneer. It was weird to hear this type of music at the time because she was doing all these strange micro tunings. I loved it. 

Dwayne and I were both in band at school and we knew how to sight read. Dwayne played trumpet and guitar and still does. I used to play the trap set and the xylophones. There are influences of that in our music because I add acoustic sounds also to our songs. I like the sound of the classical guitar. Being raised in San Antonio you see mariachis playing. I remember one time Dwayne and I sampled a classical guitar that was in my family for a long time. We used that sample to play on the keyboard and used it in a lot of songs. Fans asked who plays the guitar on your songs and we tell them that it’s a sample of a guitar I programmed on the keyboard, and they’re like, it sounds Spanish. I’m like, yeah, that’s mariachi music influencing me.

S&S: Now, this is stuff that you were sort of taking later. But what I wanted to ask was, when you were doing your hermit thing, as you put it, you’re sort of like in this creative bubble, and that you’re not exposing yourself to, like, the style of music that was being associated with you. So you weren’t listening to a lot of industrial or electro anything. Is this what you were taking in?

GD: No, no, it was like the aftereffect of what was happening. By the second album, when we got signed to Zoth Ommog, that was Revelations 23. I moved to Austin to live with Dwayne. I didn’t know anyone and didn’t want to go out and do the whole club scene. I became homesick and torn at that point because we had an older sister with severe mental problems. As I mentioned earlier, she was a huge influence on my life and many of those songs are based around her in a strange way. I wanted to capture the feeling of what my sister was going through.

S&S: So it was dedicated to her, or more written about her?

GD: God, good question. Probably both. Not every song, but yeah, my sister was a strange and special person. I idolized her. In many ways she was brilliant, but at the same time she had bipolar disorder.

We lived five miles from Southwest Research. It was a facility which was the largest primate testing facility in the world. My sister was an animal rights activist in the early 80s when the word “PETA” wasn’t even known to the public. She stood in front of this facility with a sign protesting and being the only person out there and would later organized rallies by word-of-mouth inspiring people to act and protest together for the sake of animals. If it were not for my sister, I probably would not be a musician. 

Like I said previously about my sister letting me into her bedroom and play all this crazy music for me on her stereo system. She set me in between two speakers listening to music. I was a little boy and it’s just like her to inspire me to open my ears by playing a lot of Gary Numan. I remember she had his first album, Replicas. She must have bought it in 1979. I’m 53 right now and for a kid at 10 years old, there wasn’t any music like that on the radio. You rarely if ever heard a keyboard in a song in pop music back then and I was freaking out.

S&S: I’m right there with you because I had that same experience [at] eight years old. And, you hear the opening, keyboard parts of Cars, and you’re like, “What is THIS?”

GD: Right.

S&S: I had that feeling then. I still get it now. I still love Numan.

GD: Yeah. My brother is the one who would play Numan the most. Devo was another big thing back then in our early years and he liked The Cars too. I have to say the first new wave band that was my favorite was Missing Persons. By the time I was 13 or 14 it was Depeche Mode. 

S&S: Yeah. I first discovered Skinny Puppy while working on a college radio station. So I know exactly what you mean.

GD: Right. Things are different today. I remember taping college radio shows that were geared towards weird music. They called it avant-garde. I remember reading in Rolling Stone Magazine, Skinny Puppy’s “Mind: The Perpetual Intercourse”, was being promoted as the premiere avant-garde band.

S&S: At the time, I’d have to agree.

GD: Right.

S&S: Let me change it up a little bit. I’m curious as to how your workflow is. What would a typical day in the studio for you be like? And I also want to add to that; what do you do today that’s different than what you did back then?

GD: In the early years everything was fresh, and motivation was different for me. Technology today has its advantages and disadvantages. Dwayne has an amazing recording studio. Name the instrument and equipment, he has it. For me it’s I’ve been there, done that. The last three releases that I’ve done was software driven. I want to do the opposite of that and don’t want technology taking over.

S&S: So would you consider Dwayne to be more like, the technically oriented part of the team, whereas you’re kind of more like the crazy idea man?

GD: I am crazy and more artistic. Whereas Dwayne is technical because of his degree. I think if it were not for him, I probably would still be doing keyboards. I probably would have been a keyboard player in a band not a programmer. Dwayne is intelligent and anytime there was a problem that would go awry in the studio he fixes it whereas I would be clueless.

S&S: So how did that work out during the time that Dwayne wasn’t in the band?

GD: Well, it was a learning process. […] that’s when I started really getting experimental. […] verse chorus songs went out the window. […] I was having a fun time experimenting, but at the same time, […] people want to hear songs, […] and that’s why, after this last album, I said, […] “I’ve gotten my fill doing that with the ear candy.” […]

S&S: I was listening to the record again, last night and today, and, […] it does seem like it follows not a typical song structure, but more of a stream of consciousness, […] one flows to the other. […] it’s the seamless flow.

GD: Okay, I’ll tell you why that happened. Okay, so my brother had nothing to do with that, because he wasn’t even living in the town. Part of it was the software we were using. And basically, I would, […] have my sequence in a loop, I wouldn’t have a structured song, I would just have the sequence playing in a loop. And manually as the song is recording, I would just unmute and mute stuff and change […] drum patterns in between grabbing the microphone. So it is like a stream of consciousness thing. And what I do is I record these random mixes, all in a row, on a 90 minute cassette, just sort of improvising. And I would pick out my favorite version out of the whole 90 minute cassette, […] so you’re right. There, on No Rest For The Wicked, it’s very stream of consciousness; it was very random. And I think that’s one thing where Dwayne really works out in some aspects. He’s very structured about things, […]. He, he can almost be too clinical, […] but that’s where we balance each other out over the years. And I think Dwayne records in, or Dwayne programs in a very different style. His rhythms are different. He uses different sounds than I would choose. And he definitely mixes stuff a lot differently than what I would hear. So we get this balance throughout all the songs on the album’s we’ve worked together on, […] that were the ones that later came where we really broke in and got a much larger fan base, […] so, like, with No Rest For The Wicked, […] the reason this is being put out was, Wes (Turner) (of Re:Mission Entertainment) was like, he was my merchandise guy, and I know he runs a label. He’s like, “Why don’t you put out a 30 year anniversary CD?” And I’m like, “Is it 30 years already?” […] I don’t have an ego about my stuff. […] it’s like, to me, sometimes, I just sort of try and […] pass it off as it’s only music even though it is personal to me. […] at the end of the day, […] it’s not going to change the world in any major capacity, even though people have said, “Oh, your music’s touched my life”, and, […] I mean, what can I say to that…?

S&S: When I’ve had people come up to me, especially people I’ve never even met before me, say to me, “Hey, I’ve heard your music.” It’s like having someone come up to you on the street and say, “I’ve seen you naked.”

GD: Right. […] the first time someone started crying in front of me, it was at a New York City show. And I wasn’t gonna rob them of that, because their tears were genuine. Why I wrote the song, which may not be why it affects you the way it does, but I respect that. But it was that moment where it really hit me. “Oh, my God. My music has really impacted somebody.” […] It’s not fly by night. […] but […] at the end of the day, I don’t want to come off as some industrial God who has an attitude. Because I’ve met those types of people on the road, […] in bands. They got the attitude, they think they’re the shit. And I think I’m just one of those people who’s very humble and modest.

S&S: You don’t want to be the wise old guru of electro-industrial?

GD: No, not even, […] at the end of the day, […] I’m a simpleton. […] everyone has emotions, and people just happened to, […] get some of what I’m doing. So, I feel really thankful in that respect. Um, I mean, what can I say? I feel blessed. […] I hate to say this, but I remember there came a time for me […] I get these periods, and sometimes they can be long. where I have no inspiration.

S&S: I know that feeling.

GD: And […] I need to wait to get that booster shot. But I’ve posted this story once before… I remember grabbing an issue of Keyboard Magazine, as a kid and […] me and my brother, we had one synthesizer. I remember at the time, it was the Juno 6. And this is when I had my electronic drum set and Dwayne was playing his guitar. And we had one in the house. And the only reason I bought this magazine was because Nick Rhodes of Duran Duran was on the front of it. And I remember telling my brother; I believe I was a freshman in high school; so 83 or 84, this issue a keyboard came out; and a kid with a pipe dream, I said, “Dwayne, wouldn’t it be cool if we got in this magazine one day?” And when I did, when it finally happened, that’s the day it died for me. I hate to say that, in a way. It’s sort of it was like, I proved to myself, I got in that magazine. And we didn’t even get in that magazine because of our music. We got into it because of our keyboard collection. […] When we got into Keyboard, word had gotten out that we were this band from Texas, and we had a large keyboard collection. And the issue was new bands, old gear. And we had at the time, I think 37 keyboards. […] I think the issue came out in 2000 or 1999, something like that. And that’s a fuckload of keyboards. […]

S&S: I agree. That’s nice. Oh, it’d be nice. But yeah, that’s a lot.

GD: I mean, like I said, we were addicted. […] Dwayne and I lived off of bean and cheese tacos and Top Ramen for a long time. And we suffered, […] but every time we’d walk into our music room, it felt like you were behind the helm of the Starship Enterprise. I mean, every time I walked in there, I would just get this grin on my face. Like, “I can’t believe we got all this fucking equipment.” Dwayne and I were real wise. Because when the digital craze came out, that was around like when the DX7 came out. Every one started getting rid of their analog gear when the DX7 and the D50 came out. And me and my brother went to pawn shops and we are hogging up that old analog gear dirt cheap. […] I remember buying two SH-101s for $99 apiece.

S&S: Ooh! Lucky you!

GD: My brother bought his MemoryMoog for $300. Now it’s worth it – now that my brother’s repaired it and re-soldered everything on the inside – He could easily sell it for $25,000 […]. So that was one benefit. […] one benefit about having Dwayne in the group was he had no problem popping open a synthesizer if it gave us a problem, and wiring down what the problem was and ordering the part. […] we didn’t have to pay repairman. He WAS the repair man. Analog gear breaks down all the fucking time. […] I remember the first time we popped open the MemoryMoog, like three or four huge plates, […] with all the soldering and I’m like, “Dwayne, are you sure you want to […] open that up? And do […] what you’re doing?” “Fuck you, Gary! Get over here. I need to tune these oscillators!” […] Dwayne’s really brilliant, and, […] I’m sort of the idiot clown on the side. But, […] it’s panned out, […]. I love my brother to death. And that was the one thing when we broke up. When Dwayne decided to leave the group, Dwayne wanted to do other types of music. He sort of got his fill of the EBM. And he just needed to do something different. And […] just like everyone, and like, with previous projects, I’ve remained friends with those people, because our friendship was more important than any piece of music. […] So, like, when our first band, Benestrophe, broke up, I’ve remained close friends with our first singer to this day, […] because our friendship was more important than the band. So, yeah, I’ve always had […] this good moral thing going. And I think, like I said earlier, that’s why we we’ve managed to keep going. And like I said, everything’s been icing in all. In all honesty, I’m shocked that we have a fan base. […]

S&S: Well, like I said, Some problems are good to have. […] Let me ask you this; in the last couple of years, especially with the whole COVID thing, has that thrown you a curveball as far as what you were aspiring to, like, musically? Basically, what’s it like being an artist in the COVID era?

GD: […] what it did for me was, it gave me time to actually, like I said earlier, I bought a Korg D, one digital piano. And it’s 88 keys and it’s weighted, the keys are weighted, and I want it to feel, feel, […] there’s nothing more beautiful than to me than the sound of the piano or a classical guitar. Those are my two favorite instruments. And, […] you throw a lot of reverb on it, and it’s really pretty. […] But I decided to buy that, because I wanted to start learning to play with both hands. So, I was putting in a couple of hours a day, every day for about six months, and I’ve wavered. I’ve wavered in the past six months. I only practice now about, […] a couple of hours every two or three days a week. But practice makes perfect and I’ve noticed a big difference. just playing a simple melody line. Now I can play with both hands a lot better than I ever thought I could, […] and that is what I considered, […] to me, the disadvantage of technology. It’s good in a lot of ways but…

S&S: It creates as many problems as it solves?

GD: Right. […] with a lot of EBM, it can sound too perfect. And, […] one thing I would do to offset that back in the day was I would make our shit lag intentionally. I would daisy chain a lot of stuff intentionally and have the drum machine as the last thing in the daisy chain. And it would get these strange lags where it’s like pushing and pulling just slightly, […] and not everything sounds so rigid and robotic. […] and I think that was another thing that set us apart,[…] my drum programming. I was thinking like a drummer in a lot of ways, because I used to play trap set. And I liked a lot of percussion, to whereas you can always tell a song Dwayne’s programmed because he keeps it as simple as possible. There’s a kick, snare and a hi hat. And that’s it. […] I have to have toms. I have to have cow bills. I gotta have maracas, […]. I got to have all that percussion on the side going, […] And that’s one thing we’re known for is a lot of drumming.

S&S: The drum parts are very prominent on the songs for sure […] and it’s definitely ear catching; especially the fact that (it doesn’t) sound like one trap set. I mean, I’m hearing drum sounds that sound like they could have come from a trap set. I’m hearing sounds that (could) have come from an 808 or 909. I’m hearing sounds like somebody with two ball-peen hammers hammering on a trash can. But it all comes together.

GD: Right? Well, the reason that was was because I would be using two or three drum machines at the same time. […] the one drum machine, […] that really sounded rigid for us in industrial was the first drum machine I bought was it was made by Sequential Circuits and it was called the TOM and it just sounded very industrial for lack of better terms. And then […] I got the Alesis HR16s and the Bs and they had a lot of live sample drums. So I started thinking like a drummer again. […] and when I was programming, I was programming with accents and ghost notes intentionally, […] to make it sound more organic. A lot more alive. […] and I’ve just always been drum heavy. […] that was like one of the things I always liked about going to clubs in my youth was beat heavy songs. […]

S&S: I’m the same way. […] in fact, as a drummer myself, and listening to the music I listened to growing up, it’s like I tended to emulate that, consciously or otherwise, in my playing. And it was funny that people heard my recordings and they say, “Dude, your drumming…You sound like a drum machine.” And I’ve heard that as both praise and complaint. So as a drummer myself, it’s like, yeah, I can see how you would want to mix that up and steer clear of the clichés, right?

GD: Yeah, […] the albums that really opened up for me, or taught me to be really crazy with my drumming as far as electronics were Ministry’s Twitch. When I first heard that, and Revolting CocksBigSexyLand. […] it was very electronic. But the beats were just heavy. Danceable but heavy. […] you wanted to bob your head when you’re driving. […]

S&S: Yeah, but I love both of those […]. I hear exactly where you’re coming from on that.

GD: Yeah, you get what I’m talking about?

S&S: Oh, yeah. So…truth is, you’ve answered most of my questions without even me having to ask them.

GD: Awesome.

S&S: Just to wrap up, and you’ve already touched on this, but I guess it’s sort of like a closing thought… You’ve already given me your take on the current state of the music scene, […] but where do you see it going next?

GD: […] I really don’t know. There came a time where I remember all electronic music was lumped into it just being electronic music. Now, there are so many sub factions on everything, […]: trance, ambient, dubstep, chill, down-tempo, […]. And even in our genre, […] there’s 10 different, […] sub factions for EBM? […] I don’t know, I don’t think it’s necessarily a good thing. Because it causes a lot of divisions in some aspect. And I wish it was the days where, […] people could just all come together as a collective and get off. […] like, the days of WaxTrax. Thrill Kill Kult didn’t sound like (Front) 242. (Front) 242 didn’t sound like Ministry. Ministry didn’t sound like Frontline Assembly. […] Everything back then sounded very different. […] I think that’s why I listened to a lot of like, ambient and I listened to other groups, […] outside of this genre.

And a group I listened to a lot is Junior Boys. Have you ever heard of them?

S&S: Not familiar.

GD: Yeah, they’re out of Canada. Okay. They can actually play their keyboards, but they use a lot of really cool like jazz chordings, in their songs, even though they sound electronic, […] they hit you with these weird chords that work. And, […] to me, a lot of industrial music is […] in the minor scale. […] and it doesn’t deviate from that.

S&S: I plead guilty on that one. I write a lot of stuff in minor.

GD: […] and that’s the way a lot of industrial music is and that was [why] Dwayne started learning […] all of his scales. It’s like, “Gary, start learning your scales, […] if you’re gonna start practicing”. And he gave me this list the scales and it’s just like, […] Phrygian, Locrian, […]. And he’s like, “We’re going to do something really weird for this next album. It’s gonna sound like Mentallo. And it’s going to be danceable, but we’re gonna throw people some of these weird loops, […] that they’re gonna go, ‘What the fuck?’” […]

I don’t know, because I don’t want to knock the scene. […] I don’t want to bite the hand that feeds me. But, […] most of the people getting into this are young today, and I don’t want to kill it for them. It’s their thing, […]. I come from a different time period. But I remember Paul Barker, from Ministry saying it started to corner itself at one point, […] industrial music, and it can’t break out of that, what’s in that corner. And it needs to do that, again, to be expressive. […] I mean, there’s a lot of good dance music out there even being creative today, but have I heard it […] in some form, or fashion?

[…] I’ll be honest with you. I’m surprised a scene is even still around.

S&S: In a way, so am I.

GD: Yeah, you get what I mean? Like all these bands that are from the old school, they’re touting their last tour, […] like 242 and RevCo and all this. […] And it just seems to me almost like the end of an era. […] There’s a few bands I listened to that are new, but they’re not big on the radar. One in the scene one is called Chrome Corpse. And I think he’s out of Seattle. And he’s just a kid who records in his bedroom […] but it sounds old school to me. […] it reminds me of my my youth. I think that’s why I like it. It’s very, it’s very raw and under produced.

[…] and I think he’s probably recording onto a tape deck like I did, he’s not using all this software. He’s just keeping it very minimal. […] Very minimal, very raw.

[…] I didn’t really give a fuck what people thought because I felt I […] had my integrity, I was doing what I liked at the time. I wasn’t […] trying to make a club hit, […] even with our songs in the past that were club hits. […] it was just something that happened, people happen to like, and I was fortunate in that aspect. […] but I feel a lot of bands today are doing it with pretense. […] it’s done because they want to be cool. And, […] they want to come across as hard and that and, […] there’s nothing wrong with it. I remember what it’s like to be young.

I don’t know, Jaret. […] you and I are from a different time, obviously. […] but things seem a little bit more elitist. […] but what do I know? Because I really don’t even scan the Internet for this stuff. […] if something happens to fall into my lap, and I give it a listen, and I like it. Wow. So be it. […] but I don’t necessarily go looking for music.

[…] I mean, like the last band that I started listening to a lot… They were called Cigarettes After Sex. […] it’s not even […] electronic music. It’s just real mellow […]. Ambient guitars. […] and I’ve mellowed out, […] I’m getting old, […] I don’t have that. The drive is different. The passion, […] the passion feels different. […] what else can I say?